[Joern Fischer]

Hi Peter — mostly, I agree. One comment that impressed me in the past comes from Bob Brulle, co-author of our paper on human behavior and sustainability. He argued that it was futile to try to get everyone on board (aim for a “collective” solution) — instead, if we manage to mobilise a significant fraction of the population, this would be much more effective. What if, let’s say, one third of people wanted significant change, and are willing to demand it publically? In other words, we don’t need everyone on board, and it’s fine to have some who disagree. This logic made a lot of sense to me.

Nevertheless, you are absolutely right that cultures are very different between Europe and North America — which may well mean that social change per se is a different beast in North America, where the individual good is routinely placed above the common good (even overtly).

And as to thinking outside the box: absolutely! I think ultimately it’s our value and belief systems we need to question, not just our technologies and policies.

Cheers

Joern

[Joern Fischer]

Thanks Peter! So I guess you’re suggesting to be pragmatic, while not losing sight of the big picture, and the long-term challenges. The latter I think can be a problem at times: I get frustrated if we all pat ourselves on the back because “we’re doing so well” — when in fact we’re not, in the big picture. But obviously, becoming frustrated won’t help either.

One message I take from your “fight the battles you can win” is that those will probably be different ones for different people, depending on where we are active, and in which network.

I guess I’d be interested in the likely roles of Europe versus North America. It just strikes me that the ‘readiness’ might be higher in Europe … but then again, readiness for real change (as opposed to lip-service) may be just as low.

Cheers

Joern

[Joern Fischer]

Frankly — I’m not entirely sure what our chances are making any difference is we question, seriously, democracy, at this point. Germany (part of the EU) just decided to quite nuclear power, because civil society demanded such a change (admittedly triggered by the disaster in Japan – but that’s a different issue).

With these types of debate there’s always a question regarding what we should take as given. Should we take economic growth as given? I think not. Should we take democracy as given? I think yes. Such choices are subjective.

If we do take democracy as given, then everything points to civil society as being critically important: once civil society demands changes, change does happen. See our paper posted on the MAHB site on this:
https://mahb.stanford.edu/whats-hot/human-behavior-and-sustainability/

[Joern Fischer]

I think yes — though perhaps not easily. The good thing about democracies is that when lots of people want change, change happens. Germany’s conservative government just decided to give up on nuclear energy — something that for years, only left wing parties wanted. Now enough people in the population wanted this change … and somehow it became politically possible. What seemed impossible just months before Fukushima (even weeks) suddenly was reality. In this case it took Fukushima (in all its tragedy) to mobilise the public. But whatever the trigger: once the public is mobilised, things can change fast in democracies, it seems.

The conclusion: if people want change, great things are possible. So far, too few people want change. If this can change — and arguably the USA won’t be the origin of this change in a major way … — then there is a chance for democracies to show us the way.

Different opinions anyone?

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